We don’t know when Nazis would’ve invaded USSR. They still had Western Allies to deal with. The pact gave breathing room to USSR but it also pointed them towards West. So same deal as what the West wanted to do.
But they would have invaded, probably sooner, so just letting them have all of Eastern Europe in advance would have resulted in the Nazis winning the Eastern front.
They still had Western Allies to deal with.
Which was true when they invaded them historically too, so I’m not sure what your point was.
The pact gave breathing room to USSR but it also pointed them towards West.
The USSR already did the overwhelming amount of the work in defeating the Nazis, it’s pretty file to say they should have let themselves get annihilated so the West could do even less.
I’m not sure why people think it’s either or when I’ve been very clearly saying that neither should’ve been making the deals. West made deals that damn them, but stopped at Poland. Soviet Union was put in a shitty position but also they agreed to carve up Poland alongside Nazi Germany. I’d say that’s all around pretty objectionable.
I’m not sure why people think it’s either or when I’ve been very clearly saying that neither should’ve been making the deals.
Because what you think they “should” have done is completely fucking irrelevant to the objective stone fact that the western allies did make those deals. That was the material reality the USSR had to content with, not your fantasy world that you keep bringing up despite the fact that no-one asked, presumably just to waste time. Shut the fuck up about what you think the western allies “should” have done: we are talking about the actual world.
I’d say that’s all around pretty objectionable.
So basically your argument is that 100 million lives aren’t valuable enough to be pragmatic about
I mean they did make those deals, Soviet Union made the deals, I think it was all shit.
How many times do I have to tell you that nobody asked, and nobody cares, before you stop repeating this? Shut the fuck up about what you think the western allies “should” have done: we are talking about the actual world.
Pragmatism from all sides when dealing with Nazis is what caused the situation to get that far tbqh
Hitler literally wrote a book on how much he hated communists, the bolsheviks and wanted to kill them before he even became chancellor. They were rallying against “judeo-bolshevism” from the very start. It was always very clear that the Nazis saw the main enemy in the east.
I mean clearly not. They could’ve continued on from Poland, but went to West first and then to South. Without Molotov-Ribbentrop, not sure if that would’ve been different other than Hitler being (even) less confident about the non-aggression between them. But it’s what ifs.
We don’t know when Nazis would’ve invaded USSR. They still had Western Allies to deal with. The pact gave breathing room to USSR but it also pointed them towards West. So same deal as what the West wanted to do.
But they would have invaded, probably sooner, so just letting them have all of Eastern Europe in advance would have resulted in the Nazis winning the Eastern front.
Which was true when they invaded them historically too, so I’m not sure what your point was.
The USSR already did the overwhelming amount of the work in defeating the Nazis, it’s pretty file to say they should have let themselves get annihilated so the West could do even less.
I’m not sure why people think it’s either or when I’ve been very clearly saying that neither should’ve been making the deals. West made deals that damn them, but stopped at Poland. Soviet Union was put in a shitty position but also they agreed to carve up Poland alongside Nazi Germany. I’d say that’s all around pretty objectionable.
Because what you think they “should” have done is completely fucking irrelevant to the objective stone fact that the western allies did make those deals. That was the material reality the USSR had to content with, not your fantasy world that you keep bringing up despite the fact that no-one asked, presumably just to waste time. Shut the fuck up about what you think the western allies “should” have done: we are talking about the actual world.
So basically your argument is that 100 million lives aren’t valuable enough to be pragmatic about
I mean they did make those deals, Soviet Union made the deals, I think it was all shit.
Pragmatism from all sides when dealing with Nazis is what caused the situation to get that far tbqh
How many times do I have to tell you that nobody asked, and nobody cares, before you stop repeating this? Shut the fuck up about what you think the western allies “should” have done: we are talking about the actual world.
Nonsense
It’s just sorta the topic. We don’t have to keep the discussion going if it is upsetting to you.
No, literally isn’t the topic, you just keep bringing it up because you’ve run out of arguments about the actual topic
I think overall this has run its course tbh.
Hitler literally wrote a book on how much he hated communists, the bolsheviks and wanted to kill them before he even became chancellor. They were rallying against “judeo-bolshevism” from the very start. It was always very clear that the Nazis saw the main enemy in the east.
I’m not sure what you feel this is in reply to. Their mutual hatred was well known
I was trying to say that it was evidently “as soon as possible”.
I mean clearly not. They could’ve continued on from Poland, but went to West first and then to South. Without Molotov-Ribbentrop, not sure if that would’ve been different other than Hitler being (even) less confident about the non-aggression between them. But it’s what ifs.